If god is love, why does he allow so much suffering? From what I remember their main answer was that it started in Eden when Satan challenged Gods right to rule. However, I refuse to believe that a God of Love would let billions thru history suffer and die just to prove a point!Ask any believer if God is fallible, can make mistakes, or be in the wrong, they will say no. Why not? Because He wouldn't be God otherwise. In other words, it's self-evidently true, an axiom. But if that is the case then He doesn't need to prove anything. All He needed to say was, 'Satan, you're wrong, end off.' The fact that He felt the need to prove himself is in itself an error, for axioms do not need proving, therefore He can make mistakes. The logic of the JW explanation for suffering introduced this paradox, mind you, other explanations are no better.
Ultimate Axiom
JoinedPosts by Ultimate Axiom
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Questions that were never answered for me
by WasOnceBlind ini have always been a very rational and thoughtful person.
there where always questions i had growing up regarding things i was taught.
of course asking questions while being a jw is a big no no!
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Ultimate Axiom
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Watchtower June 15 2015, Misleading Reference to Past Statement...
by BluesBrother inif this has been posted up before, then i missed it...... they call this organization "the truth" so we might expect it to be accurate .
they themselves they have previously championed honesty :.
live with jehovahs day in mind (2006) p115 par 9.
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Ultimate Axiom
There are dozens of examples this, and a lot of them have been collected together in this book if you’re interested.
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Every Governing Body Decision is from Jehovah
by B4Right inhow do you convince a jw that every decision that comes from the governing body is not from god?.
my mom who is a pioneer said that the students are getting their work book a month early, then proceeded to say " jehovah knows what we need".. for you who now know ttat what did it take for you?.
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Ultimate Axiom
How do you convince a JW that every decision that comes from the Governing Body is not from God?
Get them to acknowledge that Jehovah IS infallible and then quote them from the FDS itself;
Watchtower of March 1, 1979 page 23, “The ‘faithful and discreet slave’ has alerted all of God’s people to the sign of the times indicating the nearness of God’s Kingdom rule. In this regard, however, it must be observed that this ‘faithful and discreet slave’ was never inspired, never perfect.”
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Jehovah’s Witnesses – Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom, 1993, page 626, “Jehovah’s Witnesses … recognize the Watchtower magazine and kindred publications to be the ones used by the faithful and discreet slave to dispense spiritual food. They do not claim that this slave class is infallible…”
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A Subtle Factor That Keeps Witnesses Silenced
by freemindfade inhad an interesting thought this morning.
when a witness is 'in' they think everyone else is following and trying there best all in unity.
i believe the reality is there are a lot of us 'in' who know different.
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Ultimate Axiom
I agree with HB, I’m not so sure that the GB is really that aware of what people are thinking at grass roots. And having been out for 35 years I have no idea either. But the only congregation I have any connection with now is that of my sister, and those that I know there all seem fully “in”. Unless of course, they are putting on a very good act at covering their unbelief. -
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April video online, "endurance"
by bohm inapril video online.
at around 42 minutes, a women find jehovahs witness, but her husband is not too hot on the idea and so she has to study with her children in secret.
however eventually the husband prays to jehovah that if jehovah will help him find a leak in a construction he is working on, he will go to a meeting and presto, the next day jehovah help him find the leak so now he is a witness..
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Ultimate Axiom
"ugh. near the end we are told the governing body loooves all of us."
Not so... they hate us... they only love those who endure by not visiting sites like this one.
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The mathematical probability of spontaneous order (no designer/creator)
by Fernando inthere seem to be many prerequisites for life as we know it.. to name a few: order, function, compatibility, availability, sustainability, intelligence, consciousness, intuition and so on.. focusing on only one, namely order.. what are the chances of order arising spontaneously, by chance, with no creator/designer?.
i have often pondered this and recently came across a mathematical summary of the big picture:.
if every particle in the known physical universe (10^80 particles), participated in one trillion interactions (10^12 interactions) per second, for the entire 30 billion years of the universe's existence (10^18 seconds), then we would by now have covered only 10^110 permutations.. if you had only 100 components in a container, what are the chances that a blindfolded person could lay them out in order on a table?.
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Ultimate Axiom
"If you had only 100 components in a container, what are the chances that a blindfolded person could lay them out in order on a table?"
If we have an infinite universe then not only will a blindfolded person lay them out in order, they will do it an infinite number of times.
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The Secret is out....but nobody cares
by MrTheocratic ini've been looking on this site for some time but never posted.
i'll give a little about myself, but not too much.
i'm a ex-bethelite ( brooklyn )and currently serving as an elder (10 years) (thinking about stepping down) on the service committee.
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Ultimate Axiom
I have been out for a long time, but because of family ties, I still know a lot of Witnesses going back decades. Back in the 70s virtually everyone I knew was a 100% believer (as was I), but many of us were still quite free thinkers. Such freedom to think disappeared with the apostasy purges of the 80s, but I still occasionally meet some of those guys, and while they still profess 100% faith in Jehovah, they do not feel the same way about the GB, but they keep that to themselves. Others still have 100% faith in the Organization, sad, really sad. They are a very mixed bunch out there, at least in the UK where I live. -
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A quick summary of topics and issues wrong with jws
by stuckinarut2 inyou know how our minds often get all "fuzzy" and confused when we are put on the spot and asked to come up with points?
we often tend to lose focus and go off on tangents?.
im trying to compile a basic list of bullet points for the most obvious and clear problems / doctrines / history of witnesses that can blow the org out of the water.. it is more for the purpose of getting my own thoughts clear rather than using it to talk to witnesses (as that doesn't really work).
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Ultimate Axiom
How about;
- Baptizing children as young as 9.
- Making inaccurate and deliberately misleading statements about their past, and in some cases, outright lies.
Regarding doctrinal changes, just do a search on this site, or better still, go to http://www.jwfacts.com/ and search there, you will find dozens of examples.
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NEW LIGHT ALERT! TARGET 2015 END TIMES! EVE WAS CREATED 40 YEARS AFTER ADAM! THE END IS NEAR!
by Trailer Park Pioneer inthis is going around the kingdom halls now, i thought it was a hoax but are not all the end time dates produced by the organization some hoax or con?
the reason why the end did not come in 1975 was the watchtower society had not put eve's creation in their equation.
i was told when we had a "meet and greet" if "we knew the date of eve's creation we would know the year jehovah was going to destroy the earth.. it's been 40 years since 1975, can you believe it's been 40 years since "stay alive till 1975!"?
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Ultimate Axiom
It's not strictly true to say that they didn't factor in Eve's creation in their 1975 prediction. They did, and concluded that it was only a matter of months after Adam's creation that Eve was created. Or I should say, Freddie Franze concluded that, most of the rest of the writing department back then were much more cautious, but Freddie ruled the roost in such matters so his view prevailed. Until it all failed of course. -
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That is what New Light is all about
by FatFreek 2005 insometimes small children can see through stupid.. .
len miller.
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Ultimate Axiom
stuckinarut2 you are referring to;
“A new light of truth can never contradict a former truth. “New light” never extinguishes older “light,” but adds to it”. (WT, Feb. 1881, page 3).
And in December on page 8 an open letter was published that said, “The old light is not extinguished when new light comes, but every added ray increases the glory.” To which Russel said “Words fitly spoken-they command our attention and respect”.